Have you had a lifelong vision to establish your own orthodontic practice, only to find obstacles such as financial constraints, roadblocks, and a scarcity of available practices hindering your pursuit? In 2020, Dr. Maggie Law embarked on her entrepreneurial journey, and she is eager to divulge insights into her experience. Maggie will candidly discuss the advantages of managing your own practice, shedding light on the positive aspects and the hurdles she encountered along the way. Tune in to this conversation, and you'll find inspiration and see Maggie's apparent joy for seeing her dream come true. Remember, there has never been a better time to be an orthodontist.
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EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
What follows is an AI-generated transcript. The transcript may contain errors and is not a substitute for watching the video.
(00:00:00) Dr. Leon Klempner: So as an educator and, uh, CEO of people in practice, I get to talk to ortho residents and recent grads all the time about the feasibility of them starting their own practice. Particularly, obviously, in light of the high costs and escalating educational debt. Um, so it's a totally different experience than buying a transitioning to establish practice.
So today, we're fortunate enough to hear the story of somebody that's done that and has done that well. So grasshoppers pay attention.
(00:00:40) Narrator: The future of orthodontics is evolving and changing every day, but although the way to achieve practice growth has changed, there's never been a better time to be an orthodontist. Let's get into the minds of industry leaders, forward thinking orthodontists and technology insiders to learn how they see the future of the orthodontic specialty, (00:01:00) join your host, Dr.
Leon Klempner and. Amy Epstein, each month as they bring you insights, tips, and guest interviews focused on helping you capitalize on the opportunities for practice growth. And now welcome to the golden age of orthodontics, with the co founders of people in practice, Dr. Leon Klempner and Amy Epstein.
(00:01:23) Dr. Leon Klempner: Welcome to the golden age of orthodontics. I'm Leon Klempner, retired board certified orthodontist, proud director of and craniofacial orthodontist at Mount Sinai hospital in New York, part time faculty at the Harvard school of dental medicine. And of course the CEO of people and practice.
(00:01:44) Amy Epstein: So my dad retired in 2015, 2014, and this is what he's doing right now.
He's busier than the rest. of us who have not retired from clinical practice. Um, I'm Amy (00:02:00) Epstein. I'm the COO of People in Practice. And we are in partnership with my dad. We have a digital marketing consultancy for orthodontists by orthodontists, um, that, and we help practices use the right tools in the right ways to maximize growth.
Today. And that growth is growth of established practices, practices that are looking to bring on partners, doctors that are looking to retire, but also practices that are just getting off the ground.
(00:02:27) Dr. Leon Klempner: If I could just jump in and just say that as an orthodontist, I've been blessed to be able to do exactly what I want to do at this stage of my life.
So, I, I credit this to everybody that I, I, at all the shoulders that I stand on, my instructors, the ortho profession, we're the greatest profession in the world and this has allowed me to do whatever I want to do. So, uh, hopefully you'll be in my position someday. Mm
(00:02:59) Amy Epstein: hmm. (00:03:00) Well, so on that note. We have Dr.
Maggie Law joining us today, and we're thrilled to have her here because she started up her own practice, Ground Up, uh, in Homewood, Alabama, in March of 2020. If you heard that right, uh, after working as an associate for almost four years. And in your words, Maggie, um, your practice is based on your love of.
Southern hospitality, technology, and lifetime learning. Uh, Maggie's a big supporter of others just starting out and she helps to moderate a Facebook group for orthodontic startups. And I also know that Maggie was a podcaster herself, so she's no newbie to the podcast scene. So we're thrilled to have you here today.
Welcome to the golden
(00:03:45) Maggie Law, DMD, MS: age. Thank you guys. I'm so excited. I've been a long time fan of your podcast. And so. It was, I'm very excited to be here today and, um, get to kind of share my story and just let other younger (00:04:00) orthodontists out there know that, um, doing a startup can be the best thing for you and, um, just something truly wonderful.
So, yeah, I'm very happy to be here.
(00:04:11) Dr. Leon Klempner: Great. Well, Maggie, thanks for, for being here. You know, we have a lot of listeners that are residents all over the country and a lot of, uh, orthos that come out with a lot of debt and a lot of them feel that. You know, starting your own practice is just not possible anymore.
And that's 1 of the reasons we, we wanted to hear your story. So, um, speak to the, to the younger demographic and, and the residents and, and tell us a little bit about your story and how you did it.
(00:04:45) Maggie Law, DMD, MS: Sure, so I, um, I graduated from the University of Georgia in, um, 2008 and then I moved to Birmingham to go to dental school and finished in 2012 and then I stayed in (00:05:00) Birmingham at UAB to do my orthodontic residency and finished in April of 2015 and I was actually the only one of my co residents that did not, um, go out on their own.
My husband is a radiologist and he is a year older than me, but he is residency was longer. He was doing a fellowship in Birmingham. I met him when I was in dental school and ended up getting married when I was, uh, I think it was at the end of my first year residency. I can't remember. Um, and so I knew I needed a job in Birmingham.
So I was the only one of my co residents that, um, was going to associate. One of my, um, co residents, uh, went into practice with his dad, one bought one of our faculty's practices, and another one took over an existing practice in, um, Port Charlotte, Florida. So I just needed to find a job. So I, you know, did what a lot of people do.
I did a cover letter, sent it out to all the, um, all the practices in Birmingham and just tried to see if anybody was looking for an (00:06:00) associate or would hire me. Birmingham is where the dental school is. And so I know I live in Alabama. And so when I say saturated, it's not saturated like New York city, but Birmingham is like the saturated, um, place to practice David Sarver.
Who's I consider him a mentor. I did my master's research with him. He practices three miles down the street from me. Um, so it's, it's a, it's a packed area. And so I sent out letters and, um. I found a private practice opportunity working for two female orthodontists, and so I worked for, um, one of them two days a week, the other one two days a week, and then they had like a shared practice that I would maybe go to by myself, um, about once a month, and so that, um, that was what I did for three and a half years, and along the way, um, my husband finished fellowship, um, Got a job here in Birmingham.
And when I joined that group, they were like, you know, there's three (00:07:00) offices, three of us, you know, there'll be a chance to hopefully buy in and become part of the, um, the practice. And it didn't work out. And that's actually like a very, very common story. And so, um, I had a, an associateship that didn't work out and I, um, Was kind of left wondering, like, what do I, what do I do?
Like, I, um, I'm not really sure what my next steps are. So talk to my family, talk to my husband. Um, I was six months pregnant with my first child at the time. And I finally was like, I've just got to walk away. I've got to do, um, what's going to be best for my family. So. I, um, I call it my sabbatical year. So I had a sabbatical year of, um, I took a year off of work.
I had my baby and I immediately started looking for a place to open up a startup practice. So I looked for about nine months, my son started daycare and my husband looked at me and was like, are you ever going back to work? I'm like, yes, (00:08:00) I'm just trying to find a location because for me as a working mom, I wanted to be very close to my house.
Like if I'm going to work, I wanted, um, I wanted convenience. I wanted, I. I wanted to be, um, to where I could leave and go to a show or a little play. So my now office is about, um, two and a half miles from my home. So it took a while to find, cause again, a saturated area. And so, um, my son started daycare and I just started hardcore planning.
I combed every single Facebook group. Google, you know, would search the term startup, tried to gather as much information as I could. And, um, that's, that's kind of how I got the ball rolling. I always, I get a lot of people that reach out to me and say, well, what's the first step? The first step is always finding a location.
Um, and then after that, once you found your location, like the floodgates open for all the fun parts of it.
(00:08:56) Amy Epstein: So the. It sounds like there was, (00:09:00) it's like a family situation was happening and you, you know, you were growing your family and, and. You know, the maybe post COVID too, there's some of this too, but the desire to have flexibility and the desire to be able to accommodate your home life, maybe more in a more significant way than any of us allowed ourselves to do in the past.
Do you think what I mean, it is leading to my question about why do you think there are, um. So many startups happening now, do you think that's part of it? Or do you feel like there are other
(00:09:33) Maggie Law, DMD, MS: reasons? I have my thoughts on this. I think, um, I think 1 of the main reasons is I think most of us as orthodontists were hard workers were high achievers were goal oriented and ultimately working for somebody else.
Long term is not What makes us happy? Because I think we all like to be tinkerers and challenge ourselves and come up with new ways to do things. And when you're an associate, you can't (00:10:00) just go by, you know, a new bracket or you can't just say, well, I want to start using 3D printed appliances. Um, because the head doctor, you know, they have their practice the way that they want it.
And, you know, they might not want to spend that extra money on new technology, on something that's already working for them. And I always say that being an associate is great until one day it's not. And then when you get to that day where you're like, wow, I could be working hard for myself, or I can be working hard for somebody else, it's kind of like this flip, and I think most people don't choose to do startups.
I think doing a startup is the harder path. But because of the changing landscape in orthodontics with OSOs and DSOs, um, a lot of the practices that used to get sold to, you know, uh, graduating residents and, you know, associates, (00:11:00) you can get a lot more money. Historically, and I know things are shifting a little bit now by selling to an O.
And so I think that there is such this huge, there has been so many startup practices in the last three years. And I think that a lot of it is based out of sheer necessity because people cannot find opportunities like how they could 10 years ago. Um, also, Amy, I think owning my own practice has given me more flexibility, more joy, more happiness.
Um, you know, I, I see (00:12:00) patients three days a week, so I have two days. I call them my admin days where, um, you know, I'm at, I'm at home and I still send my kids to school. Like daycare those days and I go pick them up early, but, you know, I do a little bit of admin work, I have time for myself, like I, I feel like I have a really great work life balance because I'm in control of my schedule, which I did not have as an, as an associate.
(00:12:24) Amy Epstein: I feel that I feel that deeply. Um, so let me ask you, you touched for a second on the ability and the flexibility to have, uh, control over exploring a new orthodontic technology. Um, do you feel like the, there's as a startup, there's the feasibility of using those technologies is there because, you know, you're also battling overhead costs.
How do you make that work, bringing in that technology and trying it out, but still controlling
(00:12:58) Maggie Law, DMD, MS: expenses? That's a good question. I (00:13:00) think you have to be smart. I do my own bookkeeping. Um, obviously I have an accountant and I send everything to my accountant, but I, I watch my numbers carefully because I want to be a good steward of steward of my business, but also not make any dumb decisions.
Like you're going to make a lot of mistakes along the way. But obviously talking to your peers and trying to limit those. And I think that initially, like when I opened this practice in 2020, I had never worked at an office that had a 3d printer. And I just decided from day one, we were going to 3d print.
Like I was not going to spend money on alginate. I was not going to spend money on a model trimmer, you know? So I was like, I'm going to put that money that I would have bought with this old, you know, old school stuff. I'm just going to put it right toward. The 3d printer, um, for me, a lot of what I do as a orthodontist, which I'm sure you feel the same way Dr.
Klemner is not what I learned in (00:14:00) residency. The only type of expanders I do now are ones with 3d printed bands. I started using those almost exclusively a year into my startup and those have changed my life. There's no separator appointments. They literally snap into place. We just delivered one right before we recorded this podcast.
It's like 90 seconds to glue it in. There's no bite sticks. Um, you know, my practice is 50 percent Invisalign. I did two Invisalign cases in residency. Um, and I think you kind of have to go with what your demographic wants. So my lab bills and my, like a. P and L is way higher than somebody that does, um, braces, but also, you know, I believe what Jonathan Nick Aziz says is true.
Like there's a plastic employee and I don't have to have as many clinical hands. Like we have seen so many braces patients these, um, last this, this week. And I shared with y'all before we recorded, I'm having a baby next week because I'm trying to get all these braces patients (00:15:00) in to be seen before. I take my three week maternity leave and with aligners, you can just spread that out.
Like it's, it's so much easier. So, um, I think a lot of it has to do with your demographic and in the area where I want my practice is 50 percent adults as well. That's that's what they want. And I make it work by seeing them less frequently and doing great setups and getting predictable results.
(00:15:25) Dr. Leon Klempner: Yeah. So yeah, that's a big question that a lot of, um, uh, younger orthodontists come to me with, which is.
Can I get financing? Can I do it on my own? Is it possible to do it on my own? So did you find that when you decided to open up your own practice, if you needed to get a business loan or, uh, you know, the banks were, were open to it?
(00:15:53) Maggie Law, DMD, MS: So. Um, my situation I'll be very transparent was a little unique because my husband has a good job.(00:16:00)
He's a radiologist. Um, and because he had a good job, most people, they associate 2 days a week. When they're at their startup, and then they're like, at their practice 2 days a week to kind of earn extra income. And so I. Was not in that position where I had to have an associate job. And so to get a loan, I believe it was Wells Fargo would not even like offer me a loan since I did not have, um, proof of income since I wasn't working.
And so I ended up working with a local bank, which I always tell people to reach out to local banks when they're trying to get loans, because it's really nice to be able to get in touch with your banker. If you need anything, um, I have never worked with provide, but provide seems to be 1 that's been coming up on, like, the orthodontics startup group that, um, has been very kind and generous to, um, start up orthodontist.
And so, for me, what ended up happening was my husband had to personally guarantee my business loan. For (00:17:00) 3 years, and then his personal guarantee burned off since I wasn't working. Um, but I do, I have never heard of anybody. And like what I said, I talked to a lot of people that do startups that have said, I cannot get financing.
So I think people think that could be an obstacle, but it's really not because the, um, success rates of orthodontic practices are very high. So, um. I think that what most people probably have to do is do two days a week as an associate, um, or have a working spouse, like how I have a working spouse and, and then it's just like anything else.
You just kind of work as a team and things balance out.
(00:17:41) Amy Epstein: So Maggie on our podcast, we typically ask, uh, callers to call in for, with a question. And I do have a caller with a question for you, but right before we do that, I just wanted to take a moment to thank the sponsors of this podcast of the golden age.
Um, we're sponsored by dental, dental monitoring and light force. It's a (00:18:00) nice segue from the technology, uh, discussion we were just having because whether you're starting out or you're looking to continue growth, having the cutting edge orthodontic technology can provide differentiation from everybody else in a saturated market like you're in.
Um, and it also can provide just a really streamlined. Patient experience in addition to the quality of care and flexibility on the doctor side, like you're saying, spacing them out a little bit more, you know, there's a lot of technology out there and these two dental monitoring and light force do a lot for both the patient and also for the doctor.
Fewer appointments and, you know, more comfort, shorter treatment times. Um, these are all the benefits that these two technologies provide. So to learn more about dental monitoring, to learn more about light force, you can visit our partner page on pplpractice. com. So let's take our caller question, which is, uh, we'll play it (00:19:00) now.
Hey, Dr. Maggie,
(00:19:01) Maggie Law, DMD, MS: it's Kirsten Frazier at Frazier Orthodontics in Simpsonville, South Carolina. I wanted to ask, I know that you started your practice from scratch. What are the best parts of owning your own practice? The best parts about owning my practice is Number one, the flexibility of it, but number two, it is so rewarding to start something out of nothing.
And it's also really rewarding to have a team. I have, um, full four full time employees and just knowing that them getting to come to work and give that an opportunity to provide for their families, but also that we have a really great fun work environment and culture. Um, I'm so grateful for, because we spend so much time at work.
That, um, my girls, they, sometimes like they told me around Christmas time, one of them looked at me and said, my husband said, it's not fair that I get to go to work with my, um, three best friends every day. And I just was like, I just, it almost made me (00:20:00) tear up because that's what I want. I want, um, a team that, that works together.
Um. And just enjoys each other's company, um, so that's really rewarding to have a great team. It's really rewarding to have flexibility and all the relationships that you make with with patients. And, you know, I'm, I'm 37 and I'm kind of at that age or a lot of, um. You know, the moms that are bringing kids in, they're close in my age or I'm treating, you know, my peers and it's really fun.
I feel like I get to talk a lot all day and I get to make really good relationships and meet really cool people that I might not meet. My husband always jokes with me when we go out and about, he's like. He's like, you're a celebrity. I'm like, I'm not a celebrity. I just know people through work because we can't go anywhere without running into people that we know, which I know that that terrifies some people, like they don't want to work where they practice, but for me, um, I like it.
It definitely puts a little bit. Treating (00:21:00) friends and family is definitely, which I know, you know, Dr. Klumner, it's harder than treating people that you don't know. And sometimes I joke with my friends and family. I'm like, listen, something weird might happen because things all weird things always happen to friends and family.
But, um, you know, I'd much rather, um, you know, take care of them than let somebody else do it. And that was another huge reason why. I needed, I stepped up and did this practice was, I was like, if I don't do this, if it's not going to be me, it's going to be somebody else. And why not me? And I think that once you kind of get over that initial fear and you dive on in, you start to realize, like, wow, this is great.
And I can definitely, um, make this happen.
(00:21:45) Dr. Leon Klempner: So it's really, really funny because, you know, I practiced for 38 years in the, in the community that I. That I lived in, so I mean, I knew a lot of people, a lot of people knew me, and it would always be amazing. Like I go to the movies and you know, one of the (00:22:00) kids would, would like, look at me like, Oh my God, he goes to the movies.
(00:22:05) Maggie Law, DMD, MS: He's a normal person, seeing you
(00:22:07) Amy Epstein: guys in the wild. Exactly. What are you doing here? I was there to observe these because I was at every one of those movie showings and dinners where they'd be like, Oh, Dr. Klemner, I can't believe you're here. It's like a celebrity. Well,
(00:22:20) Dr. Leon Klempner: I'm going to share a little piece of, um, uh, uh, advice for you and maybe benefit you or not.
It benefited me a lot, which is I would get. Feedback from my wife who would say, who is that? And I didn't always know who they were. I mean, I knew they were patient in the practice, but she would, she'd kind of get insulted that I didn't introduce her. So what I learned to do is I would introduce her first.
So if I met somebody, let's say at a restaurant or at the movies, I would say, this is my wife, Lori, and then they would introduce themselves and we'd get. Their names. So
(00:22:56) Maggie Law, DMD, MS: really good advice because sometimes my husband's like, I was just standing there and (00:23:00) I, and yeah, so I'm going to start doing that. This is, this is my husband.
Uh, that's, that's really good advice. Yep.
(00:23:06) Dr. Leon Klempner: Yep. And listening to you talk, you know, I'd like to like rewind the clock. I'd come right into your practice and practice with you. And you know, I, I'm ready to go. The only thing I wouldn't like is I wouldn't want David Sauver like down the block for me.
(00:23:21) Maggie Law, DMD, MS: He's the nicest guy.
Like just, you know, when I first opened, I had like this case where I just didn't even know what to do. And I emailed him, I'm like, Can you look at this for me? And you know what he did? He set up a zoom call. He looked at it with me, talked me through it. I mean, he is just, um, he is very kind. So yeah,
(00:23:41) Dr. Leon Klempner: yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's the problem. He's he's, he's so good and he's so nice and he's down the block. But anyway, you know, For the, for people that are listening in, um, starting your own practice is not all that easy. (00:24:00) So, you know, we we've heard about a lot of the benefits. So I wondered if you wouldn't mind sharing. Some of the challenges that you faced and how you dealt with them.
(00:24:10) Maggie Law, DMD, MS: I think the biggest thing that if you, I think you have to have the right personality to own your own practice. And I, I do believe that it's not for everybody. I think you have to be really organized. I think you have to be goal oriented. I think you have to constantly have a need to want to be, um, improving your systems.
I would say for me. One of the challenges, which I didn't know it was a challenge at the time, because I didn't really have any options was I did open March 2nd, 2020. So we opened and I got like my CEO on like, March 2nd. So, like, that 1st week I had my 2 little team members. I had an assistant and treatment coordinator.
We were just doing. Like training and that sort of stuff. And because of, you know, my (00:25:00) previous work situation, I didn't have a non compete or anything like that. I just, I just didn't do like marketing before I opened just because I, I just didn't. And, and. You know, in hindsight, I probably should have, but it ultimately, it wouldn't have mattered because of COVID anyway.
Um, but I do think that, uh, it was harder for me to get into practices and introduce myself once we reopened in May, because I don't know if y'all remember in May of 2020, it was like people had to wait in their cars, people waiting rooms were closed. And so there wasn't an opportunity to go in and introduce myself.
And what was also hard too, was I didn't have any. Finished cases that I could share with people. I had like my, I am ABO board certified just like you and my six board cases from residency. But as an associate, you know, when I kind of ended that relationship, it's not like, and all the cases were co treated.
So it's not like I could have, uh. Gotten a bunch of records to post on my Instagram. And (00:26:00) so I think that initial kind of reaching out to dentists took a little bit longer. And so what I did, um, was I just started posting everything on my Instagram. You know, I really look up to, um, Dovey Prero. Um, he's so great.
He's got a great Instagram following. And I just started posting my construction. I started jumping on stories and putting my face on there and it felt weird at first. But, um, I think that that helped me overcome the challenges of not being able to do traditional marketing. I didn't even do my first community event until October of 2021.
I mean, that was when, like, the first, like, elementary school fall festival happened because of, um, the pandemic. So I think. I think that traditional marketing efforts were definitely stunted because of that. But I was able to pivot and use my social media and Instagram to really, um, put some out there.
And once I opened, I just started posting everything. I post (00:27:00) progress photos of Invisalign, like any little thing. And now like I have a little format and I try to post like a finished case every week. Um, cause now, you know, I'm finishing multiple cases a week. It's crazy. So, um, I, I would say initial marketing was a challenge.
Hiring staff is always a challenge. You know, I, I had to fire my first employee this year. That was not fun. Um, but you know, I, what I do is I remind myself that it's not just orthodontists that have a hard time with hiring. It's every single. Industry. And then it makes me just realize that there's no reason to feel bad for myself.
Like this is any business owner and with great risks come great rewards. And, um, you know, if you look long enough and you create a good team, you'll, you'll get the right people in your office.
(00:27:48) Amy Epstein: Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. So that's, that's helpful. Um, we heard a little advice from Leon earlier, uh, if you get stuck in a restaurant and, uh, (00:28:00) but is there any advice that you have that you'd like to offer those that are thinking about starting up or, or starting in the process of opening a startup practice?
(00:28:10) Maggie Law, DMD, MS: I would tell them that, that once you get past the fearful stage, you just need to go for it. And that it, I consider my, my business, it's like another 1 of my children, um, because you're always thinking about it. You're, you're, you know, thinking like, I'm, I'm out at Walmart or target on the weekends and I see something like, oh, that'd be, that would be cool for a delivery or, oh, I'd like to get that for my team.
It's like a little surprise, um. And so I, you have to just know that it's always going to be there and it's always going to need attention, but just like how having children is the most rewarding thing I've ever done, having this business is, is so rewarding and the friendships and the relationships and the hugs and the (00:29:00) completed, um, smiles that you look at and you see them on the street or you, you know, you see them.
You're on Instagram. You see answering your pressure, like Kali, like I move the teeth in that spot. Like that looks so good. Um, it's very rewarding to me. So I would, um, I would tell them that they just need to go for it. And even though it seems scary at first, it'll be one of the best decisions they ever make.
(00:29:23) Amy Epstein: Well, listen, thank you so much for sharing your story with us. This has been really, really nice. It has been good to see you again, and we hope to have you back on the show again after you have baby number two. So good luck with that. If Maggie, anyone wants to reach out to you with questions, what's the best way that they can get in
(00:29:42) Maggie Law, DMD, MS: contact?
Um, let's see. The best way to get in touch with me is my, um, Instagram at law. L. A. W. orthodontics. Um, I am very active on Instagram. I run the Instagram I use Canva. I probably should have mentioned that (00:30:00) earlier. Canva. I used to create, like, all my. Images and graphics. Um, but so reach out to me on, um, at law orthodontics and then another, um, great way to get in touch is to join the Facebook group called orthodontic startups orthodontist only.
It was started by Robert layer away. He's, um, Kent Island orthodontics. He's in Maryland. And he reached out to me after he started it and said, Hey, you know, cause he had reached out to me and asked me some questions before he opened his startup. And, um, he was like, Hey, will you help me moderate this? And I was like, yeah, absolutely.
And I think, um, I never wanted to open a startup. This was never my, my goal. I always thought I would buy an existing practice. And so I just said. You know, God, if this works out, like, I just want to be able to use my story and help as many people and encourage them because I don't want people to feel alone in the startup process.
So, um, join the Facebook group. You do have to answer questions. You cannot have sold to an or a (00:31:00) DSO to be in the group. But, you know, you have to just be like a true, like, startup practice, but, um, I. Personally, try to respond to every single comment, every single post, um, and I've posted a ton of my tips, tricks, here's how I use QR codes on my, um, on my business cards.
Here's how I do X, Y, and Z. This is what works well for me. So, um, the archives in that group are just pure gold for just great tips for a startup.
(00:31:34) Amy Epstein: That's great. Well, thanks again. We appreciate it very much. Good luck. And we will talk to you again
(00:31:39) Maggie Law, DMD, MS: soon. Okay. Thank you so much.
(00:31:41) Amy Epstein: You can subscribe or download other episodes of the golden age of orthodontics on Apple podcasts, Spotify, SoundCloud, or wherever you get your podcasts.
And if you enjoyed it, we'd appreciate you telling a colleague for more information about people in practice. You can sign up for our free marketing newsletter on our website at (00:32:00) pplpractice. com.
(00:32:02) Dr. Leon Klempner: Amy. And I really appreciate you taking. Sometime out of your day to watch or listen to us. You can tell that we like doing this.
Uh, if you'd like to contact me directly, uh, with any marketing questions or, or any questions at all, uh, just shoot me an email at Leon at PPL practice. com. And remember, for forward thinking orthos, it's never been a better time to be an orthodontist. We are in the Golden Age. Take advantage of it. Till next time.
See
(00:32:29) Narrator: ya. Thank you for tuning in to the Golden Age of Orthodontics. Subscribe now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or visit our website at thegoldenageoforthodontics. com for direct links to both the audio and video versions of this episode.
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