Clinical innovation in orthodontics is moving faster than ever, but many practices are still relying on workflows built for a different era. In this episode of The Golden Age of Orthodontics, Dr. Leon Klempner and Amy Epstein sit down with Jake Gulick, president of Greyfinch, to discuss how outdated systems, disconnected tools, and manual processes may be quietly limiting practice efficiency and growth.
Jake shares his perspective from nearly two decades in the orthodontic technology space, from helping scale Cloud9Ortho in its early years to leading innovation at Greyfinch, and explains how modern cloud-based practice management systems, AI-assisted workflows, automation, and smarter integrations are reshaping the operational side of orthodontics. The conversation explores how practices can reduce workflow friction, improve patient communication, gain better visibility into marketing performance, and rethink long-standing processes that no longer serve today’s digital orthodontic practice.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
What follows is an AI-generated transcript. The transcript may contain errors and is not a substitute for watching the video.
20260522_GAO_EP84_Jake_Gulick_Final_3746_Audio
(00:00:00) Dr. Leon Klempner: Clinical innovation in orthodontics is advancing rapidly, but daily practice workflows, they haven't caught up yet. Teams are juggling disconnected systems, manual processes, and workflow friction that became so normal that nobody really questions it anymore. Uh, today we're gonna talk with the president of Greyfinch about whether legacy workflows are quietly holding your practice back.
(00:00:29) Stay with me.
(00:00:33) Welcome to the golden age of orthodontics
(00:00:50) One thing we know is that the future of orthodontics is digital. For me, the KLOwen custom solution checks off all of the boxes, (00:01:00) takes the guesswork out of treatment planning, reduces treatment time and appointments, and lets the team best support the orthodontist. If you haven't already, I suggest you check them out.
(00:01:11) You can get more information as well as a special offer on our website. Just go to pplpractice.com and click our partner tab. Welcome to the golden age of orthodontics. If you don't already know me, I'm Leon Klempner, retired board-certified orthodontist. I'm the director of orthodontics at Mount Sinai Hospital here in New York, part-time faculty at both Harvard and Montefiore.
(00:01:36) I am the current president of the New York State Society of Orthodontists and of course, the CEO of People in Practice Marketing. I practiced for about 40 years before co-founding People in Practice with my partner, my daughter, and my podcast co-host, Amy Epstein. Welcome, Amy.
(00:01:57) Amy Eptstein: Thank you very much. I'm the marketing side of (00:02:00) this equation.
(00:02:01) Um, I have an MBA in marketing and 20 years of experience in marketing, public relations, branding, communications, all that stuff. And we bring these s- more, sort of more sophisticated approaches to marketing communications to the orthodontic industry. That's what we do at People in Practice. We are fresh off the AAO, so I just wanted to take a moment to say, you know, how what a pleasure it was to meet so many of our listeners at the show in person.
(00:02:30) We were sto- I'm always kind of amazed. It's kind of fun. Um, we're stopped at the meeting, uh, often, especially when we're together because people recognize us together, maybe, um, you know, saying that they enjoy listening to the podcast and appreciate what we do, and it's just a very meaningful reminder of why we do this every month.
(00:02:48) So thank you for that. Um, so as you know, uh, People in Practice works with orthodontists across the country, uh, helping build brands, making smart (00:03:00) choices about the technologies that support their practice, and then ultimately, our, our main job is driving qualified patients to their practice. So I'm excited about today's episode because I talk to a lot of practices that have embraced digital treatment and AI-assisted diagnostics, et cetera, but operationally, sometimes there's a disconnect, especially at the sort of mid-career practice, um, that have workflows in place that have-- that were built a while ago.
(00:03:29) Um, so today's conversation about-- is about not only, um, the technology that can help elevate practices, but also how to align, um, their operating philosophy to be able to support those, uh, pretty sophisticated technologies. Um, and that's why we have invited GreyFinch's president, uh, Jake Gulick, on the show today.
(00:03:51) Jake has spent a long time, probably a-about 20 years, in the dental and ortho tech space from starting with (00:04:00) Cloud9 Ortho, um, and, and now since joining GreyFinch i-in 2015, he's focused on rethinking how practice management software, um, can support the modern orthodontic practice, workflows, integrations, patient communication, operational efficiency, all the things that you want for your practice, um, built into one system.
(00:04:18) And we met with them at the AAO, um, and we're, we're really impressed with the technology, the support, the service, and the mindset that, um, supports all of that, uh, technology development and implementation. So Jake, thank you so much for being here today. We're really appreciative of your, of your time.
(00:04:35) Jake Gulick: Oh, absolutely.
(00:04:35) Thank you so much for having me today.
(00:04:38) Amy Eptstein: Of course.
(00:04:38) Dr. Leon Klempner: So, um, so Jake, uh, as Amy said, um, we're at the AAO, and, you know, I'm, I'm interested in learning more about GreyFinch because our clients are coming to us with such positive feedback. So I wanna know what the buzz is about. So I'm walking around, and I'm-- and I go, I (00:05:00) go over to the, uh, to the booth over there, and, um, I-- somebody says, "Hey, Dr.
(00:05:05) Klempner." And I said, "Yeah?" And he says, "Uh, my name is Brett, and, you know, I'm a helper." And he actually has a badge that says helper on it, and he says, "You're Chris Benson's friend, right?" And I said, "Yeah, I am. I'm friends with Chris Benson." So, so I, I sat with him a little bit, and he showed me a little bit about, you know, uh, you know, the software.
(00:05:27) So, so I educated myself a little bit about it. And so let me start with a question for you, which is about my favorite topic, which is AI, and it's becoming such a dominating, uh, topic, um, right now. And at People in Practice, um, you know, we're reshaping almost everything that we're doing, uh, from website development, new patient acquisition, content strategy, really from the ground up.
(00:05:57) So I'm curious, from your (00:06:00) perspective as the president at GreyFinch, first of all, how are you positioning yourself with regard to AI? Um, and, you know, where do you think that it might actually help orthodontists and their staff reduce some of the friction that they're currently experiencing?
(00:06:18) Jake Gulick: Yeah. Well, it's a great question and a great topic, and obviously a very hot topic out there.
(00:06:22) Funny enough, I just did a webinar last night, um, with a couple different companies about AI and orthodontics as well too. And it's, it's very exciting to me to see the, the, the, you know, new products that are coming out that are leveraging AI, but then also seeing companies that, you know, maybe weren't using it before kind of transforming themselves into, um, using AI.
(00:06:44) You know, at GreyFinch, we, we were- been using AI internally for, you know, a while now. We had not exposed it to our customers until, um, basic- recently. The AAO is where we kind of launched all that, and that was intentional. Um, you know, to be honest, (00:07:00) there's stuff we could've called AI in GreyFinch like many other, you know, not necessarily in orthodontics, but I mean, you see it, AI this, AI that, and it's like, well, it's not really AI, right?
(00:07:09) Mm-hmm. So you kinda have to be careful with some of that stuff. But at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter if the results are what you, you know, what you want out of it. And so we've been intentional about not calling things AI unless we're actually using AI in GreyFinch. Um, our automation hub has been, you know, in place for a while and, um, you know, the cool thing about that is, is we can implement agents into the automation hub to make it even more powerful.
(00:07:32) But really our philosophy around the AI stuff for the clinical side and the practice side is to, you know, make offices more efficient in what they're doing, right? It's not necessarily gonna fully replace a job or a position, but it makes that person more efficient in the office. And maybe you don't have to hire another person when you continue to grow your practice, right?
(00:07:52) And you can do more with less. The old adage of work harder, not-- or work smarter, not harder, right? I think that really applies to the AI (00:08:00) side of things, and that's something that we all need to embrace within just our daily workflow is like, how can we start using those, those tools and features with inside of our, our normal workflows?
(00:08:10) And so in GreyFinch we're taking the approach, as I said, of working, um, smarter, not harder, and really trying to make offices more efficient. So things like the AI dictation and rewriting things for you, those are very, you know, honestly not complicated things and very great use cases of AI, um, that are kind of been proven.
(00:08:29) And then, you know, but then taking that a step further to auto-replying to text messages, right? And, um, not having to have the staff. When someone says, "How much money do I owe?" in a text to the staff, they don't have to go look it up, right? The, the AI agent knows. It can go do that for you and, and auto-respond back with a link.
(00:08:46) "Hey, also, here's a link that you can click on and make your payment too." Um, and so making it easier for the staff. And, you know, the other thing that we've released as well is, um, the ability for- When you're doing a new patient (00:09:00) exam, and this one I'm excited about because I see a huge efficiency gain, um, is, you know, it's listening to the doctor in that exam, and it's automatically filling out the, the new patient exam form for you.
(00:09:12) Um, it's also doing more than that. It can generate letters, it generates the summaries, it can generate your treatment plan. Like, the, the possibilities are so s- powerful with what we're doing on that area, and we're just scratching the surface of it, and we're gonna learn from our doctors on how they want that stuff to work better because we can train the agents accordingly then.
(00:09:30) But, you know, you think about the staff time, especially for startups, um, they, they don't have to-- if they don't have someone sitting there, it's just the doctor likely, you know, in that room maybe. They, they can just hit record and boom, everything's gonna be done for them when they walk over to that computer.
(00:09:45) So, um, the efficiency gains are gonna be massive, we believe, as we roll these things out. Think there's a lot of opportunity in scheduling as well to help with this, um, and many other areas too. We're gonna continue to learn. The hard part, (00:10:00) uh, with what we've done is done in, in the sense of we've laid the foundation for the agents.
(00:10:05) Now it's training them on what we want them to do and how we want them to be working in the software, and that's gonna come from our customers too, you know, really like driving that on what can be beneficial. To be honest, we've had some people say, "Well, can I, can I train my own agent? Can I control it?"
(00:10:20) It's like, yes and no. No. You have to be, you know, there's-- It's a little more complex than I think a lot of people realize with that kind of stuff. But also, um, if people have read stories, these agents can have a mind of their own as well, too and they can do some stuff you may not want them to do. So you have to be very careful and make sure you're putting up guardrails, you know, with inside of- Yeah
(00:10:39) those agents in the practice as well.
(00:10:41) Amy Eptstein: And if you want to maybe, can you toggle off some of the feature? You know, if you want to maybe hold off on having the AI agent respond directly to a text message in the beginning.
(00:10:52) Jake Gulick: Yeah, I mean, we're not even having it auto-send, right? Yeah. It's a button they click, and it drafts the reply- And then
(00:10:58) Amy Eptstein: they
(00:10:58) Jake Gulick: can send it
(00:10:59) and then
(00:10:59) Amy Eptstein: they approve, they, (00:11:00) that they send it. That's important to know- That's right. ... as people listening. Yes. And like, you know, I, we have a lot of clients that, uh, you know, this is a big, that would be a huge leap. And so, you know, just to know that, okay, the, the draft for you to review is there, but you don't have to go do the work of looking it up and, um- That's
(00:11:15) Jake Gulick: right
(00:11:15) that's really
(00:11:15) Amy Eptstein: helpful. I
(00:11:16) Jake Gulick: mean, quite honestly, I wouldn't trust it right away either, right? You wanna, you, you're gonna wanna use it for a while to- Yeah ... feel comfortable that it's giving the right responses. I mean, there's things like in the instructions that we give the agents, like, "Don't use emojis.
(00:11:27) Don't respond snarky even if they're snarky to you," right? Like, just little things like that. You have to tell it, though, otherwise it doesn't know. Like, it's like a child. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um, but you know, you can put it all in there and it listens better than- Yeah ... my kids probably do.
(00:11:41) Dr. Leon Klempner: Yeah, one quick question I have, Jake, what, just interrupt you for a second, is, is I just want our listeners to, to kind of understand that what you're talking about is within a closed system, 'cause we're dealing with PHI and, you know, you know, we're always counseling our clients (00:12:00) that, yeah, you wanna use, you know, uh, ChatGPT, Perplexity, or whatever to help you draft things.
(00:12:07) You gotta be careful not to put patient identifiers in there because that goes out there, but that's not what you're talking about here, right? This is all HIPAA compliant?
(00:12:18) Jake Gulick: Absolutely. That's a great point, Leon, and I'm glad you brought that up because we hear those stories as well, and I'm like, "No, don't tell me you're doing that because that's not good.
(00:12:25) You should not be doing that." Right. And try to educate them as well. Yep. Everything inside of Gray Finch is HIPAA compliant. We have BAAs with all of the major-- We're, we're leveraging and testing all the different platforms out there that, you know, have good healthcare, um, LLMs to, to use and, and so forth, and we have BAAs with all of them.
(00:12:42) So we are HIPAA compliant with anything that's going into Gray Finch from that perspective. Um, so yes, and that's, that's a great call-out because we see it all the time as well too and hear about it, and people need to be very careful with what they're doing. But if you're using it within our system, you can be assured that, you know, it's all protected and, and safe.(00:13:00)
(00:13:00) Amy Eptstein: Mm-hmm. Yeah, and we'll talk a little bit later, but you know, we started out with the AI bit, and, um, we'll, we'll talk a little bit about how the technology itself, even without the AI elements, um, is, it allows for workflows that are, uh, provide efficiency. So I just-- I don't want to, uh, as we have our listeners, um, you know, gauging the software, just, you know, the AI is, uh, an add-on that, that you can employ, but there's also a lot of, um, uh, from what I learned at the AAO, a lot that the technology offers even without it.
(00:13:32) Um, let me ask you a question. We're gonna move from AI for a second To the cloud-based nature of the technology platform. So, um, it's, it's web-based b- and some of our clients I've observed have, you know, they hear cloud and assume that, like, "Okay, w- we can, uh, get a divorce from the IT folks and, and cut that from the budget."
(00:13:57) Um, so can you tell me practically speaking (00:14:00) what a true cloud-based system, um, changes inside an orthodontic practice and misconceptions that you hear, um, the most?
(00:14:09) Jake Gulick: Yeah, it's a great question. You know, I've been in this space now, you dated me earlier, Amy, for 20 years unfortunately, so I'm old. But, um, you know.
(00:14:17) No, it's fortunate.
(00:14:17) Amy Eptstein: You offer a lot. I say the same thing. Like, has it really been 20 years? But
(00:14:21) Jake Gulick: anyways. I know. It's crazy. But it's, it's been a great 20 years. You know, this industry's so awesome. I think that's a testament to the industry and the people- Yeah ... and the, and the providers, to be honest. Like, it's just a great industry to be in and people to work with.
(00:14:33) So, um, but yeah. You know, with the cloud, it's funny, in my early days at Cloud9, you know, we had a very ... You know, educate people on what that meant exactly and, you know, what ... "You mean, wait, my data doesn't live in my office anymore," right? I still remember calling Cox and Comcast or, you know, Spectrum trying to get internet to these offices that didn't have high-speed internet.
(00:14:54) Thankfully, those days are past us, right? But, um, you know, when you have a cloud system, (00:15:00) uh, it is means your data doesn't live in your office anymore, which to be honest is a good thing, um, uh, for the most part, as long as you're going with a reputable, you know, provider that's protecting your data, right?
(00:15:10) So, um, but the big misconception is is that, you know, everybody says, you know, cloud and everybody has a cloud now. But the difference between GreyFinch and many of the other platforms out there is that we're also browser-based, okay? So what does that mean? And that's why we try to dis- you know, make that distinction because cloud, your, your data's stored somewhere else off-site.
(00:15:33) Great. You know, nothing wrong with that. But browser-based is actually what the most of the web apps today are built on and, and built in. Mm-hmm. So what does that mean? That means you just walk up to any computer, a Mac, a PC, it doesn't matter, an iPad, and you can log into your data. It's just like online banking.
(00:15:49) So many of the cloud systems out there, you still install software. You can't use it necessarily cross-device. You can't go to your in-laws' house and get a patient call and go and pull up your (00:16:00) stuff on their computer. You know, you need to still install it or configure and all those kind of things. And so when you're looking at different practice management softwares Switching is not easy, right?
(00:16:10) It's just not fun. No one likes to do it. If you've ever been through it, you know. Um, if you haven't, it, you know, it's, it's not the most painful thing you'll ever go through , but it's not the most fun thing you're ever gonna do either. A lot of it depends on, you know, the attitude and, and so forth. Mm-hmm.
(00:16:22) But my point is you don't wanna have to do this frequently. And so when you're looking, make sure that you f- truly do understand the, the technology behind it, and that you're buying what you want and you think you're buying, right? 'Cause we've even had people approach us to say, "You know, well, I, you know, I might go with this company because of X, Y, and Z."
(00:16:40) And I say, "Well, how are you gonna use your Macs on it?" Well, you can't. Um- You have to trick your Mac into being a PC, right? Because they thought it was cloud, so they thought it was gonna work across any platform. It's not entirely true. Mm. So you really just wanna make sure you do your education, and we're happy to help with that as well, too, of course, and make sure people understand it.
(00:16:57) But, um, you know, because (00:17:00) really, um, and on the IT side of it with that, you know, you go cloud, does that mean your IT bills go away? No, probably not, right? Does it mean they could be reduced? Absolutely. And I know that a lot of IT companies have adapted over the years and, you know, have special packages if you're using a cloud-based system.
(00:17:17) Um, or depending on the practice management software and what version you're using, they have different packages because they do know that they're gonna be needed less, right? And they've adapted to that. The ones that have adapted to that have been very successful. So, um, you're still gonna need, you know, a network.
(00:17:31) You're still gonna need security. You don't want people getting into it, but at least you know they're not getting into your data, um, your practice management software data. Now- Mm-hmm ... the other quick thing on the-- that I'll mention is that if you are using a cloud-based system, you should be very much concerned if it has two-factor authentication built into it as well.
(00:17:50) Um, because that being cloud-based is that people can access it. Whether it's browser-based or cloud-based, your data's not in your office, people can access it externally, right, if they have the credentials. (00:18:00) And so with all the phishing and hacking and all that kind of stuff that goes on today with the emails, having a multi-factor authentication in your practice management software if you're using a cloud-based system is extremely important, and you should absolutely turn it on.
(00:18:12) And we offer it obviously at GreyFinch. Um, and we encourage our customers to take advantage of it and use it. A lot of cyber insurance companies won't even insure people anymore if they don't have that. Mm-hmm. So it's something you need to be thinking about going forward as well, and questions you need to be asking these companies if you're looking at switching softwares.
(00:18:30) Amy Eptstein: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
(00:18:30) Dr. Leon Klempner: So, so Jake, um, I'm gonna date myself a little bit because I think I bought my first, uh, patient management system in the late '80s, so I was an early adopter. I think in 1991, I, I bought these big CRTs and put them on the workstations and whatever. I took-- You know, I, I like this type of stuff.
(00:18:59) But what, what I (00:19:00) did notice is as I evolved and my system kept upgrading, it was almost like, um, the workflow didn't get any easier or simpler. Uh, we were just on a q-- uh, a team meeting right before we got on, uh, this call, and I, I was talking about this particular topic, and I equated it to, like, when I was a kid, we had this- toy called an Erector Set where you could, you know- Mm-hmm
(00:19:30) you would build things and you would keep adding things onto it. And, uh, one of the things that impressed me when I learned, uh, more about GreyFinch is that it was cleaner. It wasn't, um, you know, just, uh, upgrading older systems to try to keep up with the technology. It kinda had a fresh start. So talk about that a little bit and, and, and how that, um, how important that is in terms of ease of (00:20:00) workflow and, and maybe some of the automation.
(00:20:03) Jake Gulick: Yeah. Well, and that's, you know... It's a great point because, you know, one of the things that we get asked obviously is when people are converting to GreyFinch is, "How easy is it for my staff to learn," right? And I say, "Well, do they use iPhones? Do they use m-m-modern computers?" Because that's the design systems we try to follow, right?
(00:20:21) So to making that an easier transition, and I think that's why so many startups like GreyFinch because not all, but the majority of the startups are younger doctors that are f- you know, within probably five years out of school, and so they see GreyFinch and like, "Oh my gosh," like, like, "compared to these other, you know, systems that haven't...
(00:20:37) The UI hasn't been updated forever. Um, it's just what I'm used to seeing and how I visually see it." And so there's that component of it. There's also the component of just rethinking how practice management software is done in the practice. Just because it's been done some way for 20 years doesn't mean that it needs to be done that way for, um, forever.
(00:20:57) And, I mean, a great example of that in my opinion, but (00:21:00) what we've done is, is like most softwares out there have a letter Q. Um, well, you go deal with your letters in there, right? Okay. Makes sense. But then you have a to-do list over here that's completely disconnected, but that letter Q is a task. It is a to-do list.
(00:21:15) So why are they separate, you know? So we've combined that into one, and so your letters can then be generated into tasks. And so you have one spot to go to to manage all of your tasks, whether it's letters, whether it's you need to check a remote monitoring thing, you know, whether... Whatever it is, you need to order something, right?
(00:21:31) It's one space. And so it's really just trying to rethink about how we now use technology and software in the modern world and what's come out over the last 15 to 20 years and making that more, um, uh, you know, just more common in the practice management software, right? And so another component of that is the automation side to you- to what you said and how automations work, right?
(00:21:52) You know, a lot of systems have, uh, some automations built into them already with status changes and things like that, which is great, but, you (00:22:00) know, I've always struggled. One of the things that always bothered me about orthodontic practice management software is how everybody has to run reports for everything, and they're working off reports.
(00:22:09) Like, how do you follow up with new patients, right? The majority of them say I go in, I print a list, or we're keeping an Excel spreadsheet and we're monitoring it there. And, you know, there's been some great technology that's come along the way. You know, some third parties that have added some more CRM type of functionality- Right
(00:22:25) into the systems, which has been great. But my thought is, is like, wait a second, the practice management software has all this data. We know all this anyways, right? So if we have a great communications platform and we have a great tasks platform, that's all you need. We don't need a full-blown CRM in a practice management software.
(00:22:42) It's not needed. We need functions of that. So we built those functions into Gray Finch through our task management platform and our automation hub. And so you're taking the, the process of let's take the process of a new patient The follow-up on that traditionally, like I said earlier, is very (00:23:00) manual usually and tedious.
(00:23:01) With GreyFinch, it's automated. You don't do anything. The status gets changed, and we kick off that workflow. Mm-hmm. And you can wait two hours and send a text message to the patient with the case closer link so they can pick their payment plan and schedule and sign all their documents all from home, right?
(00:23:18) They walk in, they get their braces on. But you can build out your whole workflow. So if your follow-up on a new patient is typically 30 or 60 days, you can build all of that out and not have to worry about it or think about it. Mm-hmm. And you know it's getting done as the provider, the doctor as well, because you can go monitor those tasks.
(00:23:33) The emails and texts are going out automatically, right? So it's just thinking through those things in your processes in your office. But Leon, you made a good point earlier, you know, just things get easier, and I think the, the challenge is, is getting people to use all the features that GreyFinch is also building into it.
(00:23:48) So and I would challenge anybody with whatever software you're using, you should have somebody in your office that's the practice management software champion, and I've said this before. You really need someone to own it and implement it and understand (00:24:00) it because as we roll these things out, some stuff may need to change, like your treatment statuses.
(00:24:05) You probably need to add some more in there to make these workflows work right. So you have to have someone owning it, thinking through it-
(00:24:10) Amy Eptstein: Mm-hmm ...
(00:24:11) Jake Gulick: drawing it out on the... You know, drawing your journey out, right? H-Has-- You know, how many practices have actually drawn their new patient journey out on either a, you know, computer diagram or that to understand what's happening at each step of the way so that you fully understand that, and saving that because your staff may change.
(00:24:27) Then it's easy for someone to come in and see what that is. Yeah. So building those processes out internally are something I don't think a lot of people do and keep up on, and they really should stop and think about those things. And then what can your practice management software help you with on that front?
(00:24:40) And those are the things that we wanna help people. And if we can't help them at that point, we wanna know about it because we're constantly adding new things and new triggers in to help with automations in the practice.
(00:24:50) Amy Eptstein: Yeah.
(00:24:50) Dr. Leon Klempner: A-Amy, I'll let you get in in a second, but you know, one of the things that drives me crazy is, you know, I, I, I-- One of the things I do with our clients is I (00:25:00) like to look at their internal systems.
(00:25:01) We're a marketing company, so we feed the funnel up on the top, right? But we're, we're in-invested with our clients in production. That's why they hire us to begin with. So I need to know what's going on once they come through that top of the funnel. Do they end up in the start? Where are the leaky buckets?
(00:25:20) And I can't tell you how many times, you know, I'll ask for very simple data, and it's like they can't get it out of their patient management system. Like, you know, simple things, you know? Added to the system versus how many showed up, you know, and, and things like that. So, uh, you know, I hear you, uh, about, you know, the importance of that.
(00:25:42) Go ahead, Amy.
(00:25:43) Amy Eptstein: Um, no, I thought that was a really good point to, to bring up. I mean, it- let's ask the question. How, how easy is it to extract that information? Because we look at it kind of often, and it's great when we can get it readily. It-
(00:25:57) Jake Gulick: yeah, I mean, you know, with GreyFinch, we, we believe you (00:26:00) should have access to all of your data, right?
(00:26:01) So we have a data warehouse that our customers can have access to. We have open APIs they can have access to, and then of course you have reports obviously that you can build. But what we've done to, to help with the marketing side of the business is we've actually made it where we actually have an integration with Google Analytics even, right?
(00:26:16) So GreyFinch has an appointment widget. So great to drive new patients. They can schedule on your website.
(00:26:21) Amy Eptstein: Right.
(00:26:22) Jake Gulick: Well, a lot of people wanna do digital ads too, right? And, um, Facebook ads or Google ads, whatever those, Instagram, TikTok. I don't do TikTok, but whatever, you know- Mm-hmm ... seems to be the thing, right?
(00:26:31) Um, uh, I probably should, but I'd probably waste too much time on it. But, um, so but then- No, I don't think you should. You actually don't. I don't think you should. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Um, but so from the, from that perspective, you know, you can have that appointment widget and patients schedule. And what you guys wanna know is, hey, they scheduled, but then what happened, to your point.
(00:26:50) Like, did they show up? Did they pay? You know, or did they start? What, what happened to that patient? Mm. Well, with GreyFinch and using that widget and connecting Google (00:27:00) Analytics and getting it set up properly, of course, that's where you come in. We don't do that work. We let the marketing teams- Mm ... and the marketing experts- Mm-hmm
(00:27:05) set all that stuff. We give you the instructions, and you- Sure ... set all that stuff up. Mm-hmm. We can actually feed that data into GreyFinch, and you can go into a marketing analytics dashboard and see on this widget, so this ad campaign you can pick and say on this Facebook ad campaign that I did a $500 off promo on, right?
(00:27:23) Mm-hmm. This is the number of patients that scheduled from it, and here's the results of it, and you're gonna get that number. You're gonna know if they came. Mm-hmm. Did they present treatment to them, and did they actually start treatment, right? Mm-hmm. And that's so valuable for companies like you guys to have, but also for the doctors to have- Mm
(00:27:39) because they're the ones spending that money. And so there's various ways, right? And, you know, there's marketing companies. If you guys have your own dashboard, you guys can connect to our leads API and pull the data back into your own system. We don't have- Right ... to show it in our system. You guys can consume it on your end and show it there as well too.
(00:27:55) So we've created an API that pulls that, that allows you to pull that data and suck it into (00:28:00) your system. Yeah. So you can truly see that end-to-end digital marketing.
(00:28:03) Amy Eptstein: Yeah, that's really helpful. Um- So let's see. We, we-- let's go back for a second and, um, talk about practices that, uh... It was just a follow-up question I had about h-how far do you go in terms of assisting practices when they are transitioning to GreyFinch in terms of modifying, improving their workflows or, and not trying to retrofit GreyFinch into an older workflow that may not best suit them?
(00:28:38) Like how do, how do you-- It's the softer side of technology implementation. How does that work with GreyFinch?
(00:28:44) Jake Gulick: Yeah. I mean, when we're doing our implementation calls, we're learning about how they do things, right, in the practice and is there any improvements that we can see along the way. We also help them kind of clean up things as well, so treatment statuses, appointment types.
(00:28:58) Mm-hmm. We do all that during the (00:29:00) conversion process as well. Um, you know, there's a lot of garbage in garbage out type of situation there, so- We see
(00:29:06) Amy Eptstein: it all the time ...
(00:29:07) Jake Gulick: if we can clean that up at that time, then we're gonna do that, right? And then we talk to them. Um, now I'll be honest, it varies, to be, to be completely transparent on the level we do before they go live, and a lot of that has to do with the practice and do they have the time to do it, you know, is that person engaging.
(00:29:24) And so but the ones that are engaging, we want to do as much as we possibly can ahead of time with you and get everything set up because it just makes life easier, including the automation hub, right? And so a lot of that is talking through how do you do this? How do you do that? Okay. Well, here's how you're gonna do it in GreyFinch, and here's how we set it up, right?
(00:29:40) Mm-hmm. And I think that's where when conversions go haywire or, you know, I-- maybe haywire is not the right word, but you know, when they maybe go rocky or, or whatever the word may be, not as smooth as you want them to be. A lot of it is, is peop- offices trying to retrofit their old- Right ... systems into- Exactly
(00:29:56) the software. Exactly. And so we have to educate them on that (00:30:00) and get them over that hump, and a lot of that comes from the doctors as well too, and the leadership and the practice saying, "Listen, just because we did it that way doesn't mean we need to keep doing it." We've done it for twenty years. Things change.
(00:30:12) Things improve. You're still not walking into a gas station and handing them money after you pump your gas, are you? No. You're paying at the pump now. Things change over the time with technology, and so it's getting that buy-in from the staff and the doctors to do that and to help them do it, right, and, and to move forward.
(00:30:28) And, uh, funny enough, I had a-- I was doing a call with a, a larger group one time, and it was a bunch of doctors on the call, and the office manager even goes, "Well, just because we've done it that way for twenty years doesn't mean we have to do it that way," you know? And I loved it. I was like, yes, that's the attitude, and that's the mindset you need to go into, to be honest, any practice management software change, but specifically with GreyFinch because we can do so much more than the majority of the other systems out there.
(00:30:53) Let's talk through those things and how you work and how you do stuff, and let's automate it, and let's make it as smooth as possible- Mm-hmm ... (00:31:00) uh, for the, you know, for the practice.
(00:31:01) Amy Eptstein: Yep. So let, let me ask you a question probably on everyone's mind. Y- it's-- Greyfinch has a lot of capability, and, um, it clearly has, uh, you know, a lot of potential with regard to AI, and, like, it definitely seems like the, um, the most cutting-edge technology that you could have in terms of a PMS.
(00:31:23) Where, what-- How does c- it compare cost-wise? Uh, because, you know, a lot of the, our clients and who we talk to about Greyfinch, uh, are startups, as you mentioned earlier. So how, where does c- how does cost factor into the situation here? Where do you compare? How do you compare?
(00:31:39) Jake Gulick: Yeah. I, you know, um, for startups specifically, we'll talk about them first.
(00:31:44) Yep. Uh, it's a very, you know, it's It's by user, right? So the goal is, is that we start you out with, uh, you have a minimum users of three because otherwise we would lose money on every startup, so. Um, but that being said, it's very reasonable. There's no way you'd be able to go find all the features (00:32:00) that Gray Finch provides for that cost because with most other systems you're gonna have to leverage multiple third parties, right?
(00:32:05) And so they're all gonna get theirs. So from a cost perspective, it's very reasonable, um, for startup practices, uh, with Gray Finch. And we do that intentionally, right? Because, um, we want-- we know that you're just starting up. We know cash is tight, right? And so we try to keep that as low as possible, and essentially then we grow with you, right?
(00:32:23) So as you add more users as you grow, then you pay us a little bit more money each time, right? Now, with conversions, um, it's always a great to do an analysis, right? And I'll-- And I always tell people this, if you're just gonna buy on price, then maybe we're not the right solution for you because we are looking at is the value, right, of what we're providing, and our goal is for you to grow.
(00:32:45) And we want you to see more patients because if you grow... Now, with the AI stuff, you may not have to hire as many people, but, you know, you do hire more people, right? Which then increases our revenue from that perspective. So we have every incentive, and our incentives are aligned with your (00:33:00) incentives as the practice to grow.
(00:33:01) Mm-hmm. Um, so with conversions, you know, it varies. A lot of times we save them money, uh, especially on credit card processing because- Mm-hmm ... they're getting ripped off, most people are- Right ... with the other providers. Um, and so I always encourage everybody to look at it as a package. You can't look at us and compare us directly with your practice management software costs because you need to take into account all the third parties you're using that we likely replace, and then also your processing as well too.
(00:33:26) And so most offices save money. I'm not saying that everybody does, but the ones that don't, they see it as a tool. The value offsets any difference in increase- Right ... in price because of the features that we offer, so. Right.
(00:33:37) Amy Eptstein: Right. Okay. Yeah. And I imagine, too, you know, as, as practices get started and they realize all the benefits as well, like it's, I think, hard to imagine the utility of some of the tools until they're in practice and in place.
(00:33:53) And so be interesting to talk to, um, you know, get some, some stories of some practices that (00:34:00) after the first six to twelve months to talk about how they were surprised by this and this, um, you know, tool or feature.
(00:34:07) Jake Gulick: Yeah, it's funny you say that because at the AAO one of our doctors, who was one of the earlier doctors that, you know, started using Grayfinch- Mm-hmm
(00:34:15) told me, he goes, "Yeah." He goes, "You know, when you guys first came out I was like, oh, this is cool. The vision seems cool, you know? But, you know, we weren't..." At that time maybe not quite as feature near- not nearly as feature-rich as we are today, right, with features and stuff. He goes, "It's like, you know, I was starting up a practice.
(00:34:29) I figured I'd just use it. You had some cool stuff for, you know, getting new patients in the door and stuff, and just figured I'd switch after a year or so if I didn't like it." He goes, "Obviously I'm not doing that anytime soon. You guys are doing awesome. You know, and keep growing and adding those features and values and stuff."
(00:34:43) So it was, it was kind of cool to hear that. Um, to, to your point, it's like you start to take a, take a step back and get into it and realize all the different things that you're able to do. Yeah. It's pretty powerful.
(00:34:55) Amy Eptstein: Sounds that way. Well, listen, thanks Jake. Really appreciate your perspective and, uh, (00:35:00) the education about GreyFinch.
(00:35:01) If we have listeners today that want to learn more, reach out, have questions, how- what's the best way to get in touch?
(00:35:08) Jake Gulick: Yeah. Honestly, I mean, our website, um, greyfinch.com. You can do an A or an E in the grey, it doesn't matter. We- Yeah. That was smart ... we bought them both. Um, uh, yes. Well, as a marketing company, you guys would appreciate that.
(00:35:19) Yes. Happy to. Um, and we wanted a .com, right? So that was so important to us too. Yeah. So, um, but yeah, you can go on there, and they can, um, either fill out a form, uh, phone number's there. You can schedule a demo directly with, uh, the rep that covers your territory as well. Mm-hmm. So we try to make it easy to get in touch with us as well.
(00:35:34) Um, and we'd be happy to talk more and see if we're a good fit for you.
(00:35:37) Amy Eptstein: Sounds great. Great. Well, listen, thanks again for your time today. Really appreciate it. Look forward to s- having you back on the show again.
(00:35:43) Jake Gulick: Yeah, definitely. Thank you so much. I appreciate you guys. Thanks, Jake. Thank you, guys.
(00:35:46) Amy Eptstein: You can subscribe or download other episodes of The Golden Age of Orthodontics on Apple, Spotify, SoundCloud, YouTube if you wanna look at our faces, wherever you get your podcasts.
(00:35:57) Uh, and if you enjoyed it, we'd appreciate you telling a colleague, (00:36:00) and to learn more about People in Practice, you can visit our website at pplpractice.com.
(00:36:06) Dr. Leon Klempner: I'm not sure you wanna look at our faces, so you can, you can hear us. You can- Why not? All right. You-
(00:36:11) Amy Eptstein: That's how you, you two can recognize us at the AAO.
(00:36:13) Dr. Leon Klempner: Well, that's true. That's true. That, that, that is, that is fun anyway. But if you wanna contact me, uh, marketing questions, shoot me an email at [email protected]. Uh, we mentioned before, AI is changing everything, and particularly the way new patients find you. So, um, what we've done, do you... Actually, do you even know if your website is optimized for AI?
(00:36:41) Well, we've got a solution for that. Uh, you can go to news.pplpractice.com\ai-scorecard. Yeah, we're gonna put that in the show notes- That's too long ... because-
(00:36:49) Amy Eptstein: Yeah, that's
(00:36:50) Dr. Leon Klempner: too long ... it's,
(00:36:51) Amy Eptstein: like, very long. Yeah. So we'll just, you'll click on it when you see the show in the show notes, but
(00:36:56) Dr. Leon Klempner: go ahead. The g- the good news is you can put, you put in your website, (00:37:00) and we'll review it and give you a score, and more importantly, we'll tell you how to fix it so you can improve your search vis- uh, uh, visibility, which is critical these days.
(00:37:10) And best of all, it's free to our, uh, listeners. Most important thing, remember, for forward-thinking orthodontists, it's never been a better time to be an orthodontist. We are in the golden age, so take advantage of it. Thanks for listening. Bye for now.
(00:37:34) Thank you for listening to the Golden Age of Orthodontics podcast. Subscribe to our podcast on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or visit our website at pplpractice.com
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